Hmmm...what about the Technocracy? Specificly, Iteneration X? By this rule, most of the ItXers would have exploded from Paradox a long time back. (Granted, I don't think that's a *bad* thing...) Since Technomancers are operating in the current reality, wouldn't cyberware be in synch with them? I.E., not incur Paradox? ItXers do get paradox from their cybernetics.  According to the Iteration X Convention book, for each level of a biomechanism (talisman) attached to a Xer, he gains permanant paradox.  Hence the reason why there aren't armies of 'borgs roaming the streets looking for mages.                                             Jay

Hmmm...what about the Technocracy? Specificly, Iteneration X? By this rule, most of the ItXers would have exploded from Paradox a long time back. (Granted, I don't think that's a *bad* thing...) Since Technomancers are operating in the current reality, wouldn't cyberware be in synch with them? I.E., not incur Paradox? 'Vulgar' cyberware, eg. a built-in plasmacannon or an obviously artificial eye, does generate Paradox today. That's why most of the hardcore (no pun intended) ItXers spend their time in 'custom-made realities' (Horizon Realms). This info comes dtraight from the ItX Convention book, which has a section on Cyberware as talismans. By the time Cyberware has filtered down to the masses it will not incur Paradox as such, but probably have some dehumanizing effect, bringing the man closer to the Machine, as Cyberware will probably work under ItX paradigm, that's the reason fr Cyberpsychosis BTW. Probably the humans should gain a Cyberpool for Frenzy dice or something. Clemens Future Historian and _meta_physicist, Order of Hermes

Me, I wouldn't mind having the cyber out there so some yoyo can find a box in an It-X lab marked XKJ Self-Installing Transneural DIN interface unit.  That way when they open the box the gizmo gets out and trys to implant a datajack in the middle of their forehead. ...with the normal ItX failsafes of course. It works fine, except that sometimes you obey orders from The Computer.

===================================== CYBERNETICS FOR THE WORLD OF DARKNESS ===================================== Here's how we do it on Dark_meta_l, because I'm here and tripped over this and think that DM's not /that/ bad a Mush.  It's technical aspects.  Make up your own mind.   [For those who don't know, Dark_meta_l's theme is Future Cyberpunk.  Not unlike Dei'dre's _World of Future Darkness_, but with some creative twists.] There are two types of Cybernetics, really.  Normal plain ol' boring mortal Cyberware, and MageCyber (which is either technically created as talismans or cyberfetishes). Cybernetics in... Humans:        To keep things sane, we made a new background stat: Cybernetics. You can spend both Cybernetic points and permenant Resource points to get, that would be, up to 10 points of Cyberware.  I believe we use a loose 'essence' chart but wouldn't be to sure.  Cyber brings mere mortals up to par with many supernaturals.  But like any power, it has its weaknesses as well. Vampires:        The nature of Vampires is they keep healing their wounds.  Shoving normal cyberware in a vamp will either eventually throw the vampire into topor (ew, that continual internal wounding is a pain) or the cyberware will eventually fall out.  This is, if you can get a vampire unconscious. Vicissitude or Matter/Spirit could concievably install cyber into a vampire and make it stick. Garou:        With the exception of Cyberfetishes, the rule we have is: Forget it.  Even BSDs wouldn't want to meld themselves with something that doesn't change forms when you do.  We even, I believe, suffer a -1 Gnosis penalty for MageCyber (talismans) even if they're designed to shift with garou.  Hey, weaver's weaver. Mages:        The closest thing to normal humans are mages, so it just goes to show that they're the hardest to deal with.  My personal favorite is that it depends on your Essence.  Primordial essences loose an effective point of Avatar per point of cybernetics.  Pattern essences loose a point of Avatar per three points of cybernetics.  Everyone else looses a point per two points of cybernetics.  When your Avatar reaches zero, its simply overwhelmed by the amount of contact lost between spirit and body and the ability is lost. (Forever?  Don't look at me, there's not a lot of storytelling control on a Mush.)        MageCyber and Cyberfetishes don't do anything to Avatar, since they're specificly designed to keep within control, though as always with magic there is the strong chance of paradox.  (The World of Future Darkness helps some on the cyber front, but even HIT Mark modules are still considered futuristic.) Wraiths:        Even though they're not on Dark_meta_l, I'd think anything you can bring over you can keep, however you bring it over.  (Matter 3, Spirit 3, Prime 2 - but then how are you going to install it?)  The effects would probably be different (IR vision might only detect balefire) but not unplausable. Changelings:        I'll be honest, I don't like WhiteWolf's treatment of fae.  But trying to keep in spirit of them, I'll make a few notes.  (We don't allow Changelings on DM, either.)  Cyberware is Banal.  Baaaaaa-nal.  Not dreary banal.   Dauntain banal.  Anti-Changeling.  It gets in your system and makes you do things.  Ick, yuck.  It takes out the eyes that can See, the ears that can Hear, and the fingers that Know Precisely When the Lock Is Picked.  Need IR?  Get goggles.  Need to evesdrop?  Hang outside the gutter above their window.  Don't bog yourself down with something that can never be changed again.        On a more technical note, Changelings are Otherworldly and Free-Energy, etcetera.  And most of them are underaged.  I admit I can't come up with a solid reason to say why not Changelings and Cyberware any more than WhiteWolf can come up with a reason why the wee folk all emulate romantic visages of olde England.                      -Kent Jenkins                      [ Thenomain ]

Luckily I have played both mage and shadowrun extensively. IMHO Shadowrun makes for a very possible post gehenna WoD say ghenna happens on december 31 1999 suddenly on new years eve all vampires disapear from earth.(mostly) this dissapearance starts the Garou thinking apocolypse is here Garou start killing EVERYTHING (including each other) in a quick response the Technocracy tries to subdue them War rages between Garou and Technocracy. The Wyrm secretly backs up the Technomancers almost all Garou are DEAD The traditions, catching the weakness in the technocracy, pounce on them Changlings start to feel a lightness in the air The technocracy scatters then we have The Awakening All Changelings start assuming thier true fae forms the Gauntlet withers Unicorns and dragons start showing up The dreamspeakers and OoH publicize the truth of Magick Virtual adepts publicize the Web Iteration X and the Progenitors 'join' the traditions NWO is defunct the void engineers split the syndicate splinters but the individual factions get control of it all All the paradigms blend together to form the highly unstable shadowrun universe      But all this is just speculation anyways and prolly unlikely. More to the point: I imagine that in order to incluse cyberware in WoD you would have to somehow include an essence rating (humanity? Stamina?) Vampires would be a toughie though

<SNIP : :    Ok, for the most part I would of agreed with you, but on these two I : have to be against. : :   First, why not cyber up a Virtual Adept? His magic is thru computers and : such, where they can bring VR to the real world.. Why not inhance your : ability thru cyber? You could implant mem chips to your body, have a : better interface with the computer, carry much more in your ROTE directory : at a thoughts distance, much more than you could by normal memory itself. : I have a VA that has done extensive cyber upon him, mainly because he uses : it to store knowledge, and can download it in a thought. His Rotes are : programs and are uploaded and done, multi-tasking is also a good benifit : of it. Ok, I would buy that.   :     : : Werewolves: : These defenders of Gaia would not let themselves be cybered.  Think of : Wyrm tait.  Thats enough for thm. : :     Now is it a Wyrm Taint? The Glass Walkers would be very interested to : know of this, they use any tech that they can get ahold of. Because Tech : in itself is not Corrupt, but those that use it can be, or the use of it : could taint. But in itself, no.. Glass Walkers are always into the newest : tech out there, Cybernetics is just a newer Tech to be used. And if it : helps them defend Gaia without pullng them into the Wrym's corruption, : then they will use it..   :    As for the rest of the garou, maybe the Bone Knawers<SP might use it. : But for the rest, I really doubt they would use it for the same argument : of it may be Wrym Tainted. The Watchers of Apes (AKA. Glass Walkers.)have : always courted mans inventions, and the other tribes have doubts about : them. So the other tribes would not use Cyber... : I agree with you on this also.  I don't have the Werewolf book and have never had a chance to look throught the book and see waht the different philosopphies of the tribes were.  Thanks. : Lee : :